First M715 purchase

Howdy all. Bought my first M715 last week off gov't auction. It's about 250 miles away in BFE Pennsylvania. Went there today to assess and see if I can get it running and drive it back. It's currently not running b/c the harmonic balancer is messed up. Looked around a bit online and all I could find was one on evilBay for $131. I know parts are difficult to locate for these Tornado 230's but, jeez... All the parts except the crankshaft key seemed to be there, so I brought the balancer back w/ me to match up the keyway. The key slot in the crankshaft looks somewhat chewed up but I think I can make it work. Opinions on that are welcome, of course.

In any case, the truck was sitting for 3 years and the rest of it checked out ok. Master cylinder was bone dry but I put in some fluid and pumped the brakes a few times and it seemed to come around. Clutch seems functional as do the gears. Tires all had air. Didn't test spark but the points looked good. Had a weatherproof sealed style distributor cap so I think that helps a lot. The crank bolt was still there and I tightened it up until the engine started turning and I got two full revolutions of the crank w/o any strenuous effort. I'm sure the fuel is questionable but I'll assess that when I go back to get it running. Oil looked fresh and didn't stink of fuel or have water in it. Radiator was dry but I think they might have drained it when they took the balancer off.

Couple of questions: Does anyone know of a good place to get replacement rims? I work at a tire shop and the widowmaker rims are not allowed. I have another place I can get them done but they charge a lot. I'd rather just get replacement, non-life-threatening rims and be done w/ it. Suggestions?

Is there anything else I should look for when something has been sitting for a few years? Besides fuel, spark, etc... I plan on taking three new batteries for the dual voltage system so I should be ok there too.

I attached a few pics to this post, but couldn't figure out how to include them inline. I read a couple of other posts where they suggested just putting the URL in the post but that didn't work, it just turned the URL into a link. I also tried using <img> and [img] tags but that didn't work either.

I also jacked up all 4 tires and they all spin w/ no effort. I'm quite hopeful the brakes will somewhat function.

Unless the FD has monkeyed with the wiring (like that has NEVER happened before -- you'd be the first), it's not dual-voltage, just straight 24 volts. 2 @12v batteries mount in a box between teh seats.

They may have added a second battery to run things like the blinky-blinky fire lights, siren, pump starter, etc. Or just pulled 12v off of one of the two series-wired batteries.

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Originally Posted by kaiser715

Unless the FD has monkeyed with the wiring (like that has NEVER happened before -- you'd be the first), it's not dual-voltage, just straight 24 volts. 2 @12v batteries mount in a box between teh seats.

They may have added a second battery to run things like the blinky-blinky fire lights, siren, pump starter, etc. Or just pulled 12v off of one of the two series-wired batteries.

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There are two batteries wired in series between the seats, and one battery under the hood. There's two alternators mounted on the engine, a normal-looking AC-Delco and what looks like a larger one underneath (looks more like a generator than an alternator). Maybe it's not commonly called a dual-voltage system, but there are definitely two separate systems providing pixies.

They probably did add the extra battery for lights and such, but the ignition and gauges all look like they're still on the 24-V system.

Contrats on your purchase, and welcome to the zone:)

Would someone please tell me how to get my computer to be able to see photo links like this.:confused:

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Originally Posted by fliptop

Howdy all.

Couple of questions: Does anyone know of a good place to get replacement rims? I work at a tire shop and the widowmaker rims are not allowed. I have another place I can get them done but they charge a lot. I'd rather just get replacement, non-life-threatening rims and be done w/ it. Suggestions?

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Welcome, congrats on getting a M715. As for the wheels, they are not split rings, they are military safety rings and are different than split rings. They have a safety lip that prevents them from blowing apart like split rims. They can be very easy to work with if you know what you are doing, they were made to be able to be changed in the field by 18 year old soldiers without many tools. Don't call them split rings when you talk to a place, call them by their proper name and most places will understand what they are then.

As for posting images for everyone to be able to see, you need to use a hosting site like imgur.com which is free. You then link the pictures using the picture button on this page. You will end up with something that looks like this for everyone to see.


"[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/TAyyDbl.jpg[/IMG ]"

https://i.imgur.com/TAyyDbl.jpg

Realistically, you should really reconsider your plan, and have it hauled home.

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Originally Posted by jeepdan

Realistically, you should really reconsider your plan, and have it hauled home.

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Where's the fun in that?

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Originally Posted by Beast

Welcome, congrats on getting a M715. As for the wheels, they are not split rings, they are military safety rings and are different than split rings. They have a safety lip that prevents them from blowing apart like split rims. They can be very easy to work with if you know what you are doing, they were made to be able to be changed in the field by 18 year old soldiers without many tools. Don't call them split rings when you talk to a place, call them by their proper name and most places will understand what they are then.

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Thanks for the info, I will talk to the guys at the shop I work at and go from there.

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As for posting images for everyone to be able to see, you need to use a hosting site like imgur.com which is free. You then link the pictures using the picture button on this page.

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I have uploaded the images to my webserver, but there's no "picture button" for me to link. Only an "additional option" at the bottom to attach files. Here's a full-size screenshot:

http://www.peacecomputers.com/m715je...screenshot.png

This is only a test

http://www.peacecomputers.com/m715je...DR_800x600.jpg

OK I figured it out. Unless I'm missing something, I don't have a 'picture button.' But if I wrap the URL in IMG tags it works. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction @Beast!

Looks like willysamerica.com in California will rebuild my balancer if I ship it to them. The price on their Websites says $215 but I'm not sure if that includes shipping it back. I emailed them about that and turnaround time. When I hear back I'll post their response.

Welcome to the fun.

I know you want to jump right in and get at it. However, spending that much money for a balancer seems criminal to me when just about weekly there is someone somewhere in the country giving an entire running engine away for these trucks. Patience might be your best course of some this stuff.

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Originally Posted by fliptop

I have uploaded the images to my webserver, but there's no "picture button" for me to link. Only an "additional option" at the bottom to attach files. Here's a full-size screenshot:

http://www.peacecomputers.com/m715je...screenshot.png

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The picture button is along the top of the reply box.
https://i.imgur.com/49KI9L5.jpg

I currently have a 1974 J20:

http://www.peacecomputers.com/IMG_0002_800x600.jpg

Also acquired via gov't auction, but this time from the Virginia Dept of Forestry. It has a tired old AMC 360 in it. When I first got it the cam was shot and a couple of lifters had holes in them. No doubt they used modern oil but didn't put in a zinc additive.

So after changing the cam, lifters, pushrods, rocker arms, timing chain and gears, water pump, and putting in a new fuel tank and pump, and rebuilding the carb and a new distributor, plus front calipers and brake pads and rear wheel cylinders and shoes, plus changing gear oil in both axles and a new mount, filter, gasket, fluid and a bottle of Lucas in the TH400, (holy crap, when I type it out that really is a lot of work!), it runs pretty good now and I've been using it as my semi-daily driver to do jobs. It's been working hard and making back the money I've spent.

In any case, back to the tired old AMC 360, it's kind of a dog. This thing has 4.10 gears in a Dana 60 and Dana 44 and the torque is there but the HP isn't. I have a couple old SBC 350 blocks lying around and a set of Vortec heads from a '99 pickup so I decided to build a 383 stroker for it.

Should I consider doing the same thing for the M715? Or would building the AMC 360 be a better choice? One thing that's swaying my opinion toward another 383 stroker is the fact that it took a month to get the cam and stuff for the AMC 360, but SBC 350 parts are available everywhere.

I've crunched some numbers and even at 6000 RPM in the stroker my piston speed will still be below 4000 feet/minute, so I think the motor will last a good while.

And what about re-gearing the axles or a different tranny? I don't intend to build the M715 into a rock crawler, just something I can use in the woods to winch logs out of the ravine and haul them home, or to tow a portable sawmill and haul home the lumber.

Opinions welcome...

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Originally Posted by Barrman

Welcome to the fun.

I know you want to jump right in and get at it. However, spending that much money for a balancer seems criminal to me when just about weekly there is someone somewhere in the country giving an entire running engine away for these trucks. Patience might be your best course of some this stuff.

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It does seem high, but I need to get the vehicle off the forestry's property ASAP and hauling it home will cost much, much more. If spending a couple hundred gets it running and driving it'll save me over a thousand in the long run.

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Originally Posted by Beast

The picture button is along the top of the reply box.
https://i.imgur.com/49KI9L5.jpg

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That looks totally different in my browser. I don't have any of those options. Take a look at my screenshot. I'm using Firefox on Linux.

Doesn't really matter much since I figured out I can wrap the URL in IMG tags and all is well w/ the world.

I have a real soft spot for Full Size Jeeps.
Love your vintage J20.
You are going to have a nice pair.:)

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Originally Posted by fliptop

In any case, back to the tired old AMC 360, it's kind of a dog. This thing has 4.10 gears in a Dana 60 and Dana 44 and the torque is there but the HP isn't. I have a couple old SBC 350 blocks lying around and a set of Vortec heads from a '99 pickup so I decided to build a 383 stroker for it.

Should I consider doing the same thing for the M715? Or would building the AMC 360 be a better choice? One thing that's swaying my opinion toward another 383 stroker is the fact that it took a month to get the cam and stuff for the AMC 360, but SBC 350 parts are available everywhere.

I've crunched some numbers and even at 6000 RPM in the stroker my piston speed will still be below 4000 feet/minute, so I think the motor will last a good while.

Opinions welcome...

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One of the main reasons I put a cheby 350 in mine is that I know, in 30 years, I can still get parts for it, and likely, off the shelf in many places.

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Originally Posted by fliptop

And what about re-gearing the axles or a different tranny? I don't intend to build the M715 into a rock crawler, just something I can use in the woods to winch logs out of the ravine and haul them home, or to tow a portable sawmill and haul home the lumber.

Opinions welcome...

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I ran a 350/700r4 with the stock transfer case and axle gears for several years.
That was good for keeping RPMs down with the stock 5.87 gears, but the NP200 transfer case builds up heat and blows out the seals. Highway speed still limited.

Swapped to a Ford 390/T18/divorced NP205 a few years ago. T18 is pretty much the same as the stock T98. The 205 eliminated the heat issue, new limit was engine RPM.

Swapped gears and went with 4.56.. It's much better on the highway.
Search the site and you can probably find part numbers for the gears and see if they're still available.

Since you want different wheels, it'd be cheaper/easier to swap axles than regear.
I would have swapped axles but already had an investment in the stock axles with new brakes, bearings, seals, lockers....

That's a good looking truck.

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Originally Posted by Von

Swapped gears and went with 4.56.. It's much better on the highway.
Search the site and you can probably find part numbers for the gears and see if they're still available.

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Thanks for the advice, I may try regearing the axles before changing the transmission and transfer case.

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That's a good looking truck.

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Thanks! For what I paid it'd better be...

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Originally Posted by kaiser715

One of the main reasons I put a cheby 350 in mine is that I know, in 30 years, I can still get parts for it, and likely, off the shelf in many places.

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My thoughts exactly. Plus building a stroker will up the ante when it comes to torque. I think I'll retire the AMC 360 when the stroker is done for the J20 then build a 2nd one for the M715.

Howdy all, Willys America got back to me. I have to ship them the balancer to be rebuilt. They said I should expect a 10-day turnaround time. When it's done they'll contact me for payment. Shipping it out today via USPS, flat-rate priority in a medium-sized box. Will update again soon...

Just got off the phone w/ Paul at Willys America, what a nice fellow he was. I didn't notice when I shipped him the balancer but it's cracked in the keyway. He said he can rebuild it (the rubber part) and put on a sleeve to keep the timing cover oil seal from leaking, and that repair would probably be enough to get the vehicle home. I sent him a pic of the crank keyway and we're going to chat again tomorrow evening.

He's also trying to talk me out of "frankensteining" the vehicle, saying he's more of a purist and that I actually am in two collectable camps, one for M715's and the other for antique fire trucks. He said fixing the issues w/ oil burning involve relatively simple modifications to the cylinder head to permit the oil to more easily flow back down to the crankcase and can be done w/ a die grinder. I'm not entirely convinced that keeping it stock is the right thing yet, but since this will probably be part of my daughters' inheritance, I am giving it some serious thought...

I'm definitely in the purest crowd as my M715 is a former MVPA Gold Medalist and was inducted into the Military Vehicle Magazine Hall of Fame in 2020. And my M725 is all original as well. For me it was about preserving history, as I do not use any of my military vehicles as daily drivers and have no desire to do so as well. Former military vehicles make horrible daily drivers as they were never designed for comfort or to travel at modern highway speeds and take quite a bit of work to get them there. I use my trucks for parades, displays and shows as well as a backroads cruiser on the weekends. Everywhere I go with them, I'm always amazed by the stories people and veterans recall when they see an old military vehicle. But I'm also a believer in that it's your truck and you can do with it whatever you want. I look at it as every time someone cuts up and mods one, that just makes my original one worth that much more. There were only 33K of all the variants build during a three year production and there are not very many left anymore.

https://i.imgur.com/L1hZfxa.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/XeqsI4x.jpg
[IMG][Imgur](https://i.imgur.com/umVxC0n.jpg)[/IMG]
https://i.imgur.com/hdLkZZu.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/i1BB9sy.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/5K7N115.jpg?1

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Originally Posted by Beast

I look at it as every time someone cuts up and mods one, that just makes my original one worth that much more. There were only 33K of all the variants build during a three year production and there are not very many left anymore.

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Thanks @Beast for your thoughts, I originally wanted to use the truck to make back the money I've invested, and as a backup for my J20. You and Paul from Willys America have given me much to consider and mull over. My best friend from college will be heading out w/ me to pick up this vehicle once the balancer is ready and I think we'll spend the trip discussing all the options...

Talked to Paul at Willys America yesterday, the balancer I shipped him is cracked in the keyway and also wallered out by 0.015", so it can't be rebuilt as-is. I'll have to have a new one machined and the cost just went from $215 up to about $600. More than likely the crank snout is messed up as well. Probably going to switch to plan B and haul the truck home instead of trying to get it running and drive it.

Going to mull it over this weekend and make a decision Monday. Since I intend to use the truck as a backup work truck and for jobs the J20 can't handle, this development is not helping me decide to keep the Tornado engine. If parts were more easily accessible I'd consider it but this...well, if I were building something strictly for car shows and parades, maybe...

So the thoughts I'm having now are to continue down the road of a SBC 383 stroker but keep all the old parts. When I'm gone and my daughters inherit it, the new owner will have everything they need to put it back to original (except the balancer, I suppose).

Some of you may be wondering why I just didn't buy a F-350 and it's mostly b/c around here, they're mostly beat to hell and back and almost always rusted away. I'd still have to do a bunch of work to get something like that running and driving, and to pass inspection. And when I'm gone, it won't be worth much. But a well cared for M715? Even after I'm done using it it'll still be worth a lot more than a tired old F350.

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Originally Posted by fliptop

Talked to Paul at Willys America yesterday, the balancer I shipped him is cracked in the keyway and also wallered out by 0.015", so it can't be rebuilt as-is. I'll have to have a new one machined and the cost just went from $215 up to about $600. More than likely the crank snout is messed up as well. Probably going to switch to plan B and haul the truck home instead of trying to get it running and drive it.



Going to mull it over this weekend and make a decision Monday. Since I intend to use the truck as a backup work truck and for jobs the J20 can't handle, this development is not helping me decide to keep the Tornado engine. If parts were more easily accessible I'd consider it but this...well, if I were building something strictly for car shows and parades, maybe...



So the thoughts I'm having now are to continue down the road of a SBC 383 stroker but keep all the old parts. When I'm gone and my daughters inherit it, the new owner will have everything they need to put it back to original (except the balancer, I suppose).



Some of you may be wondering why I just didn't buy a F-350 and it's mostly b/c around here, they're mostly beat to hell and back and almost always rusted away. I'd still have to do a bunch of work to get something like that running and driving, and to pass inspection. And when I'm gone, it won't be worth much. But a well cared for M715? Even after I'm done using it it'll still be worth a lot more than a tired old F350.

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Brah... dump the tornado and go with a modern engine and don't look back. You can drop in an LS and keep the stock tranny with a Novak kit. Or an old Gen I or II 350. If you actually plan on driving this truck you will rue the day you chose to keep it. I mean the truth is the military hated it as well. I have nothing against the purest hell I used to be one but let's be honest the tornado 230 is a POS.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by teking

Brah... dump the tornado and go with a modern engine and don't look back.

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Well put, and that's what I'm leaning towards now. Going to pick it up Sunday and haul it home, should be quite a show on the PA Turnpike! Beep and give me a thumbs up if you see me!

Give me a call after you get it home, I would like to see it, as well as your J20
Dan

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Originally Posted by jeepdan

Give me a call after you get it home, I would like to see it, as well as your J20

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Will do Dan, it'll be next week though. I'm sure it's going to be a long day and a late evening!

Just made it home and unloaded, what a long day! Got a few thumbs up on the turnpike and when we stopped for fuel in New Stanton a State Trooper saw us and came over, took pictures and asked a bunch of questions. He was a former firefighter and spent about 10 minutes talking to us. I'm pooped but the Jeep is home now and I'm happy the haul went w/o a snafu. And now, the real work can commence...